Only 3 times? You are soooo far behind me. I *love* M*A*S*H! I watch it every single change I get. Been doing so for about... ten years now? I doubt there's a single episode I haven't seen at least twice.

And, you're right... I'm only 22 (almost 23), not quite an old fart... no matter what my residents say.

Personally, what I really don't understand is why so many gay people insist that we accept their lifestyle.

why can't it be enough that accept someone as a human being and leave it at that. Because Ted they want to be able to walk down the street holding hands without people freaking out about it. Because they want to be able to be themselves without people looking at them and calling them names or treating them like lepers. Heterosexuals, some of us, don't accept this, don't think it's normal and refuse to even consider it! Some over react violently and can you blame someone who is gay to keep it to themselves? I have friends who are gay, they are out, but there are still so many who are not because they live and work in environments that don't accept them. I guess in a way I would compare what they are going through to someone living in a very racist society. For that matter, if it was about "equality", why don't we hear gay activists championing the cause of overweight, diabetic, or people who can't pass the physical training test. Or should I be like the Gay activists and figure that they must hate overweight, diabetic or people who are out of shape, simply because I agree that they should be barred from military service?I guess the real lesson learned from the gay activists is, anyone who disgrees with a person's political agenda hates them. A good question but I would say that there are some fat gay people out there too!lol! But I would also add to that because they are more focussed on the issues that they themselves face being gay. Although, a gay fat person who is diabetic has it threefold! This is the common denominator of the people who support having openly gay people in the military. It really is a lifestyle and living conditions unlike anything you will encounter in the civilian world. Having served in the Navy I can tell you that the living quarters and such on a ship leave absolutely no room for anything even remotely resembling privacy.

This is why I firmly believe the 'don't ask, don't tell' or is that 'we won't ask you don't tell'? policy should remain as is and people just mind their business. AND along with this remaining in place, if someone happened to be found out as being gay, then he/she be left alone and not be ostracized, kicked out, harrassed and all the other things that comes along with an 'outing'. Although I"m not in the military, never have been, and unless it's mandatory, never will be, I can only go by hearsay from what I just said there; however, I have friend who are gay, so I know a little of what they do go through. [no not in the military, but civilian life.]

This says it all as far as I am concerned. I am very much a mind my own business kind of person. The problem with many of the more activist type gays is that they seem to go out of their way to try to make their business my business. That annoys the hell out of me. I don't care what they or anyone else does in their bedroom and just don't want to know. I wish they'd keep their business to themselves and leave me (and everyone else) the hell alone.

I know a couple of gay guys who live a couple of streets over from me. They're pretty cool in my book. They aren't "in the closet" but they're not "in your face" either. They don't introduce themselves as "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm gay." If you met them on the street you'd just see a couple of guys. People. Not gay people. Just people. That's why I like them.

Why do some of these people seem to think that the whole world needs to know who they prefer to bugger? I really don't care and wish they'd just shut the hell up and try to act like people for a change. Maybe then society in general just might start treating them like people instead of freaks.

ForeverSerenity:


Ah, so the gay couple want their right to "be themselves" in public without anyone offending them... even if what they are doing happens to offend those around them. See, that is my point. Sure, the couple have every right to hold hands or kiss just like a straight couple. They don't have the right to demand that everyone around them treat them with respect. If the gay couple do not care who they offend then they also shouldn't whine about someone offending them.



Yes, sadly there are those who react with violence. These people should be prosecuted just like any other criminal.

"MasonM - Unless you have personally experienced military life you are simply incapable of truly understanding it or the complications this can cause."

Ok, but this works for those on both sides of the issue. If you will ignore one side, you have to ignore both. It may be worse then a person who supports gays in the military may think and even with changes it wouldn't work, or not as bad as a person who disapproves may think and with changes it could work.

"MasonM - The problem with many of the more activist type gays is that they seem to go out of their way to try to make their business my business. That annoys the hell out of me. I don't care what they or anyone else does in their bedroom and just don't want to know. I wish they'd keep their business to themselves and leave me (and everyone else) the hell alone."

Agreed, yet I have to wonder, you give the "cool" gays example, but how many gay activists have you met in real life?

"ParaTed - For that matter, if it was about "equality", why don't we hear gay activists championing the cause of overweight, diabetic, or people who can't pass the physical training test."

Because those people are not fit physically. A gay person simply has a different sexual preference, it is not a physically limiting thing about how they will be able to perform.

"ParaTed - I've also learned that in our PC society "acceptance" only seems to go one way."

Yea, it does seem to go more one way then the other... it is probably because one is fighting for equality, one already has it... not exactly fair though.

I served in the Navy. What are these "complications" that you speak of?

While your statement here isn't very clear, I'm guessing at what you're trying to say here. Firstly, I don't believe I ever used or implied the word 'ignore' anywhere. What I was saying is that the issue is far more complex and difficult than those without military experience may realize.



Far too many actually. I have not exactly lead a sheltered life

If you served in the Navy, aboard ship, you wouldn't have to ask that question.

"Firstly, I don't believe I ever used or implied the word 'ignore' anywhere. What I was saying is that the issue is far more complex and difficult than those without military experience may realize."

True, you didn't say ignore, but you did say they were incapable of understanding the complications it can cause, which implies their opinions dont matter.

I was simply pointing out that you cant just say (in the other thread), "Those who actively support the open gays in the military idea (and have probably never served themselves) are not subject to reason or rational argument. " to those that support it, those that don't support open gays (and haven't served) are not subject to reason or rational argument either since both groups weren't in that situation. Also if you took out the section in parenthesis it makes even less sense, you are just generalizing everyone that supports open gays in the military are irrational and not subject to reason which, oddly enough, is followed up by, "To them, everyone else is a bigot and nothing is likely to change their little minds." which says THEY are generalizing calling everyone unsupporting a bigot, as if that isn't something you just did.

I don't know about how it is for different branches and I know that individual situations can vary widely, but my husband has been in 3 different combat zones and he's never been forced to shower or use the bathroom in front of other Soldiers. There's always been an option.

He's in Iraq now and he lives in a CHU (basically a little metal box) with 3 other guys. When he wants privacy, he just hangs his sleeping bag or some similar item, from his bunk to create a divider. They are also not all in the room at the same time because it's not a 9-5 life over there.

Most of the time when he's had to sleep somewhere where this was not possible it was also a situation where changing clothes wasn't possible or feasible, either.

Army PT shorts are essentially swim trunks, and a super modest (or paranoid) Soldier can shower in them.

I'm not saying that there aren't genuine logistical issues involved in incorporating openly (or flaming-ly) gay troops into the military, and I personally think the military is pretty accommodating to gay service members as it is.

I'm just hoping people aren't getting the idea that the troops live like sorority sisters, having panty pillow fights and showering together and chatting over a morning piss. They're not one big naked, synchronized pooping team.

I will try to explain it from a former military persons point of view.



Yes, and no. It brings down morale when people are openly gay and flaunting it in straight peoples faces just like people that are openly straight flaunting it in gay peoples faces. When I was in the service my unit had a Corpsman (a field medic) that was queer as a three dollar bill. We all knew he was gay; he was part of our team and damn good at his job. No one cared that he played for the other team! He did his job, and did it well, he saved lives and he wore dresses and sucked cock when he was off duty. As long as he did not hit on any of the straight people no body cared. No one reported him because he did not bother anyone. He was treated as a member of the team and if anyone gave him any problems we had his back. One time we were in the Philippines and he was banging women two at a time and we were confused at what we saw. I asked him what had happened that caused the sudden change. He said to me, “when in Rome do as the Romans do, but back home it is strictly Greek.” It seemed that the gays in the Philippines were too feminine for him and the women were just right, or in his words more masculine in what he likes. I laughed and went back to my wife who flew over to visit. The only homophobia I witnessed in the military was from young immature people that felt threatened by something so different. That fear is something that will bring down morale because children can be mean and cruel.
I am not gay, or bisexual nor do I care to be. I used to teach bible study and preach a little in my younger days. I don’t see a problem with gays in the military as long as they keep their sexual antics to their own type. I feel the exact same way about heterosexuals. I don’t want to hear how you did last night or who did what to whom. I did not tell you about what I did with my girlfriend my wife, or my mistress why do you need to tell me about what you did? Don’t ask don’t tell is ok I guess.




Not to my knowledge. Like I said earlier the young men and women have problems with people outside their mindset of what is right or moral, you get the same thing in high school and not something that is exclusive to the military.

Hope this helps. It is not difinitive it is only the observations of one Marine.

Yea, but I saw them when they first aired. I am an OLD guy.

but my husband has been in 3 different combat zones and he's never been forced to shower or use the bathroom in front of other Soldiers.

 

Then he has had an exceptionally rare experience.

After discussing this with him the other day, I discovered that I was incorrect in my assesment.

He HAS had the unfortunate experience of shared "waste elimination". Even at his current crappy FOB they have shower curtains, though.

I was only like 20% wrong, so I would like to pretend that I was right. I'd like for you to go along with that if at all possible. It's very important for my self esteem.

OMG! This is possibly the greatest paragraph ever.

My cousin seems to share this opinion. He says he hasn't had any privacy issues so far. He's a fairly closed-minded individual, but says he hasn't had any problems with homosexual soldiers.

This does lead to a point of confusion for me: if some soldiers have some privacy, why don't all soldiers? Other than the Navy (boats and subs are cramped, I hear), why can't these soldiers have more privacy? Why must the showers and latrines look as they do? Is it cost, space, time, habit?