NO!

Is the lack of diversity at the higher levels of education a problem? Definitely. But it is not a problem that can be fixed from the top down. There is no benefit to be had from pushing minority students into programs they are not ready for, purely for the sake of diversity. Similarly, it is illogical, not to mention insulting, to suggest that standards be lowered so that more minorities qualify for certain programs of study.

It is true that underpriviliged students underperform on standardized tests (which are useless, btw, but that really isn't relevant here) as well as in their general schoolwork, and this is where the problem must be addressed and solved: At the point of origin. You do not stick a Volvo in a road race and wonder why it can't keep up. If underprivileged students constantly lag behind their peers in terms of schoolwork, we must find a way to close this achievement gap so that everyone can truly compete for the few coveted university spots. It must also be mentioned, however, that standardized test scores and grades remain fairly poor indicators of actual knowledge gained in school, but this does not mean that society sits on its hands and waits for the system to fix itself; rather, we must work as best we can to make the flawed system equitable.

As I've written before, affirmative action does nothing but stigmatize the minority students that are qualified for fast-paced university programs, and degrade the ones who don't make the cut.

The process never asks about race. It would be illegal anyway.

One quick side note: High school achievement gaps are divided more by socio-economic standing, not race. This type of discussion often gets muddled because people assume it is about race, a topic which tends to become heated and offensive. In reality, this is a financial issue.

No.

I was in the honors program at my college...and it was all white as well.  But, wasn't as involved as yours seems to be.

Anyway, I think it should be earn as you go, race should never play a factor.

I read those authors in HS.  I always hated Literature, but now am glad I was forced to take it.

But to answer your question, no.  Since the program is not mandatory, you cannot force people to participate in it.

I think allowing people in who don't meet standards does them no favors unless the ongoing assesment of them in their classes is lowered as well.  If you let someone in who doesn't make the cut, and then judge them by the same standards as those who do, they'll fall out pretty quickly on their own anyway.

So once you lower the bar for entrance to encourage diversity, you must lower the bar once in the program to keep those same people in.

Lower the bar too much and you don't have an honors program anymore.

Ok. I'm glad people seem to agree with me, because there are some on campus who are angry at the Honors Program. I just don't see how lowering the standards helps anyone, but they complain that the standards aren't fair. Countering with, "Who said life is fair?" just seems to piss them off. Not that that stops me from saying it...

If they want diversity, those people should hang out with people outside the college who are not going to school. I think it's really easy as a student to get stuck in a very narrow set of experiences. Not all extremely intelligent people are going to school in honors colleges.

I understand what you are saying about the student body but diversity can mean more than what happens on campus.

I always tell them to find the word fair in the Constitution, then we will talk about fair. So far, no one has.

[quote]I do not believe that we should lower standards to increase the number of minorities in the program.[quote]


Why would it be a lowering of the standards to have diversity, and why would the standards have to be lowered?




Why wouldn't they (your school) seek smart people who are minorities to fit the bill? Why would they not seek smart minority students who are just as educated and just as smart who will fit the program?


They are out there, and they are not just black, they are asian, latino, and others. Granted, a minority who doesn't have all the opportunities or priviledges for one reason or another, wouldn't fit in because they wouldn't have had all the opportunities, but they are out there if the college seeks them out. Then again, that's if they can entice them to join your school's program because they might just be comfortably ensconced elsewhere.


Kudos to you on being an Honor student btw!

Why would it be a lowering of the standards to have diversity, and why would the standards have to be lowered?

If I'm reading SHE's post right, she's talking about a growing initiative at her school to force the honors program to consider students who don't meet academic standards because of their minority status.  When I went to school, I saw much the same thing with minority campus groups throwing fits if certain percentages in programs weren't achieved. 

Arguments of how statistically speaking, minority students aren't afforded as good a secondary education as whites, how they have lower test scores due to various socio-economic reasons etc. were all used to try and justify academic standards being lowered or ignored in CONSIDERATION of being a minority.

They are out there, there's no question of that, and I'm all for seeing schools bend over backwards to attract those students.  If you can make the grade, meet the academic criteria and keep up with the program, I don't care if you've got green skin and yellow dots all over your face.  But in the end I believe in it being a meritocracy, and that no standard should be lowered to accomodate anyone because they're a minority.

If you don't meet the standards for an honors program, you don't get in. 

If they can't cut the mustard they don't rate. Period. I think this whole PC mentality is insanity, plain and simple. Standards are standards. Things have gone from denying people who qualify simply because of their race to lowering the standards to allow people in just because of their race. It's still racism any way you look at it.

Race should not be a considered factor for any reason at all.

Thanks Zoomba... you said it better than I could.

It isn't that we don't have minorities in the program. We do, just not many of them. I'm part of the outreach program, an Honors Ambassador, and we reach out to numbers, not people. In a way, it's pretty sad. Some kids with the high numbers don't make good Honors students while some with slightly-higher-than-average numbers make great Honors students. We don't actively recruit all that much because we are the fastest growing school in the state, and the Honors program is a big reason for that.

If we lacked minorities because they did not feel comfortable in the program, that would be a big problem that would need a solution fast. We simply lack diversity because of who applies and who qualifies. To fix this, some people have suggested that we lower the required ACT and GPA numbers. These numbers are not set in stone, and amazing writing samples and recommendation letters can help out a person with a low ACT... but usually only if they have a good GPA to recommend them.

That is the way I read it. And to those that say minorities did not have the same opportunities, I say dont lower the river, raise the bridge! i.e. work to make sure their opportunities are equal, dont lower what an A is.

Only if he reads it.



Amen, amen, amen! I understand that not everyone had the childhood I had. Not everyone had parents that read to them, made sure they did their homework, helped with school projects, and insured academic success. However, I don't think it would be fair for me to get left out of the Honors program because they want to give my spot to someone with a less than stellar academic record.

This has actually come up within another program -- the Fulbright Foundation. The Fulbright committee is more likely to give money to a student from an historically underrepresented school than one from Harvard or Yale. I don't believe that I should get a grant over someone with a better GPA simply because I come from a school with no past Fulbright Scholars... except that this grant was set up to give opportunities to students from smaller schools who, historically, have fewer opportunities.

If you don't meet the standards for an honors program, you don't get in.

I wholeheartedly agree with this!



But the mentality of the school body and most boards in general is that they have to lower the standards and it is this attitude that is a bad thing. If they didn't do this kind of cop out, our school system would be a lot better than it is. It would force students to be better, it would force parents who are not there for their kids to make sure that their child is better and getting eduated and meeting the standards and it would make the system and our children better all around.

Instead, because of how things are done here, the students have no interests, they make no effort because they know that the path will be made easier for them.

This is why I asked, why do they have to lower the standards, they shouldn't have to do that!

And to those that say minorities did not have the same opportunities

Some really don't Doc. There are minorities out there who are just as smart who don't get the chances at most opportunities just because their family can't afford it. And this is why there are some programs set up for these children who do have the brain power and can meet the demand. Unfortunately these very smart chldren are often looked upon as having been given something and so we have people who cop this attitude that they always take when it comes to race that blacks (because most people seem to only always think black when it comes to minorites, and blacks are not even the major minority anymore) but most people will say, oh they got there because they are black, when sometimes that is not the case.

it's time we all stop that kind of thinking because this is what hinders the youths who are our future in this country.